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Cms Vs Gms (Or Put Another Way Established Vs Form Players)


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#31 Diamond Scot

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

The problem here is consistancy and expectation.

Young players are generally inconsistant. International football tends to be one off games or double headers so the manager needs to know that the players he picks are going to play well. Of course there is no guarentee that any player is going to play well but an older more established player is used to playing well when required in such games.

There is also an argument that this also applies to players from "smaller" SPL clubs. When you play for a club such as Dundee Utd, you dont need to perform well every game to keep your place and there isnt as much fan or media focus when a player has an off game. Russell for example has had flashes of total class this season but at other times has played very poorly. He isnt at risk of getting dropped though (quite rightly) as he is still developing.

Expectation is also a problem. Say GMS was given a call up. People would expect him to turn up and perform to the standard that they have seen of him in the highlights of his good games. The likelyhood is this wouldnt happen and he would get stick / pressure etc.

Its better to allow these players to develop, establish themselves, learn the demands of modern day football, perform in the u21's and then when they are ready they will bring alot to the main squad.

Im all for including one or 2 u21's in each squad to gain some experience and then drop them back out again and bring in others but lets not clamour for guys to be put in before they are ready.

#32 Parklife

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:25 AM

The problem here is consistancy and expectation.

Young players are generally inconsistant. International football tends to be one off games or double headers so the manager needs to know that the players he picks are going to play well. Of course there is no guarentee that any player is going to play well but an older more established player is used to playing well when required in such games.

There is also an argument that this also applies to players from "smaller" SPL clubs. When you play for a club such as Dundee Utd, you dont need to perform well every game to keep your place and there isnt as much fan or media focus when a player has an off game. Russell for example has had flashes of total class this season but at other times has played very poorly. He isnt at risk of getting dropped though (quite rightly) as he is still developing.

Expectation is also a problem. Say GMS was given a call up. People would expect him to turn up and perform to the standard that they have seen of him in the highlights of his good games. The likelyhood is this wouldnt happen and he would get stick / pressure etc.

Its better to allow these players to develop, establish themselves, learn the demands of modern day football, perform in the u21's and then when they are ready they will bring alot to the main squad.

Im all for including one or 2 u21's in each squad to gain some experience and then drop them back out again and bring in others but lets not clamour for guys to be put in before they are ready.


Spot on! :ok:

#33 ParisInAKilt

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:31 AM

Good enough, you're old enough. Although Diamond Scot makes a lot of good points. But at the same time we aren't in a position to ignore on form young players, especially in some key positions. Whether or not GMS is ready or will be ready come September is another question. But how long can we keep picking players like Bannan and Dorrans when they aren't making an impact at club level?
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#34 WillfaeSwindon

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:22 AM

But how long can we keep picking players like Bannan and Dorrans when they aren't making an impact at club level?

Didnt Avril also say you had to be playing regularly for your club as well?

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#35 Parklife

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:04 AM

Didnt Avril also say you had to be playing regularly for your club as well?

He picked Jamie Mackie about 2 games after he'd missed a year with a broken leg. What Levein says is not consistent and depends on who you are.

#36 ParisInAKilt

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:06 AM

Didnt Avril also say you had to be playing regularly for your club as well?


It seems to depend on who you are
Pick it out Landreau

#37 Parklife

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:07 AM

He picked Jamie Mackie about 2 games after he'd missed a year with a broken leg. What Levein says is not consistent and depends on who you are.

It seems to depend on who you are


I'm off for a lie down.......

#38 ParisInAKilt

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:11 AM

I'm off for a lie down.......


Me too :shocked:
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#39 Diamond Scot

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:15 AM

Didnt Avril also say you had to be playing regularly for your club as well?


Every manager says this but realistically its more of a preferance than a hard and fast rule.

As for being old enough if your good enough. Thats fine but being good enough cant just be judged on potential or how a player performs over half a season. Being good enough means performing at a high level consistantly and showing that they can perform when it really matters.

#40 ParisInAKilt

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:19 AM

As for being old enough if your good enough. Thats fine but being good enough cant just be judged on potential or how a player performs over half a season. Being good enough means performing at a high level consistantly and
showing that they can perform when it really matters.


I agree and in regards to GMS it's too early to call him up to the full squad. But come September id he's still playing well I rather have him, although inexperienced and not tested at international level than an aging Robson or someone like Dorrans (who I do rate) not playing for WBA. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of strength in depth
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#41 Diamond Scot

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 01:08 PM

I agree and in regards to GMS it's too early to call him up to the full squad. But come September id he's still playing well I rather have him, although inexperienced and not tested at international level than an aging Robson or someone like Dorrans (who I do rate) not playing for WBA. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of strength in depth


Agreed with regards to Robson. It should be people like Robson who should be making way for potential players like GMS. If it was a qualifier though id have GMS in the squad come September but would probably still opt for the players with more experience like Dorrans but I suppose thats all about the manager making a choice based on gut feel and how they look on the training pitches.

Playing reguarly is important but there is also an argument than even playing reserve football in the EPL and the odd EPL game is a higher standard than the SPL and also they are training with better players / coaches.

For example id rather play Goodwillie ahead of any on form Scottish striker playing in the SPL right now.

#42 fringo

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:18 PM

I'm off for a lie down.......

Me too :shocked:


So you two did get a room at long last. :yikes3: :wink2: :rollsmile:
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#43 WillfaeSwindon

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:46 PM

So you two did get a room at long last. :yikes3: :wink2: :rollsmile:

:lol:

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#44 Bzzzz

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:17 PM

For example id rather play Goodwillie ahead of any on form Scottish striker playing in the SPL right now.


I'd rather play promising Scottish u-21s than mediocre english eligibles.
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#45 ProudScot

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:36 AM

I'd rather play promising Scottish u-21s than mediocre english eligibles.


Im not sure how u managed to turn that into an 'english eligibles' comment but well done ;) lol