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Rangers Situation


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#1 Diamond Scot

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:13 PM

Have been listening to all the various arguments regarding the situation with Rangers and to be honest im not sure where I stand.

Just to say from the start that im a Airdrie fan so have no feelings towards either half of the OF or any other Scottish team.

My take on the situation is that Rangers are very important to the SPL, Scottish football and other clubs due to their size, history and probably more importantly the money which they generate for the league.

Taking the money issue 1st its very clear that the main reason for any TV contract is the OF. Games involving non OF teams have fewer viewers than conferance games in England. Rangers also take a large fan base to away games which brings in money for the other SPL clubs in both match day tickets and corporate sales packages.

That being said Rangers may have broken the rules and may get liquidated. If this was to be the case then they deserve punishment otherwise it makes a mockery of the league and provides an unfair advantage to a new debt free Rangers.

My question to non OF fans in the SPL is:

If Rangers were to go bust and made to start again in division 3 and the following were to happen, no or dramitically reduced TV contract resulting in other SPL clubs going into administation or having to sell any viable assets whether it be players, grounds etc would they still be in favour of sending Rangers to div 3?

Personally im moving towards the answer being yes. Most other SPL sides are dependent on the money that Rangers bring in. Most are struggling as it is. The league would not be more competitive as Celtic would win it at a canter so instead of teams competing for 3rd they would be competing for 2nd but 2nd would only hold a Europa League qualifying place anyway so no real guarentee of money. With all that being said though I think Scottish football could maybe do with Rangers going to the 3rd, several clubs going bust and then us almost having to start again from afresh.

#2 EddardStark

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:32 PM

Just think, we would have one of Cove's admin threads every week.

I think positions are very much drawn down tribal lines.If it was another club I think there would be a more conciliatry tone adopted.But the very name Rangers cast objective thuought out of the window.

As for Rangers NEWCO then they probably should start in the 3rd division.But the reality is we will be subjected to three years of punitive sanction but remain and subsidise those very clubs that will be put at risk.

#3 Haggis_trap

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:37 PM

The assumption that other teams will disappear because they are no longer getting pumped 5-0 by Rangers 4 times a year seems like arrogant scare mongering to me.

Teams like Aberdeen, Heart, Hibs, Dundee UTD used to pull in average crowds of 15 000. However with the recent old firm duo-opoly of the last decade average gates are now down to 8000.

In recent years the 'diddy teams' are very much used to cutting their cloth to fit the restricted budgets of the SPL.
Unlike Rangers and Celtic they have never had aspirations of Champions league (or English premier league) glory.

If the TV pot of money is reduced then Celtic will suffer the most ? Which then means some of the smaller teams might find it easier to close the gap? In the longer term a greater reliance on young Scottish players, by all 12 SPL teams, could be a very good thing for Scottish football ?

Obviously if Scottish football is to prosper in the long term then something needs to be done to make the product more attractive ? The fact that Aberdeen, in 1986, were the last non Old Firm team to win the premier league sums up perfectly what is really wrong with our game ? Outside the Old Firm there is dwindling interest because the league has been milked dry by 2 teams Euro & EPL aspirations.

Edited by Haggis_trap, 19 April 2012 - 01:44 PM.


#4 Scunnered

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:40 PM

Not one team in the SPL would be affected to any great lengths by Rangers demise, financial or otherwise.
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#5 Flure

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:42 PM

I think positions are very much drawn down tribal lines.If it was another club I think there would be a more conciliatry tone adopted.But the very name Rangers cast objective thuought out of the window.

Surely that's not a new position> And it's a situation that followers of Rangers have acknowledged in the past - and, indeed, have publicly stated their thoughts on it.

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#6 ek_celt

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:43 PM

Just think, we would have one of Cove's admin threads every week.

I think positions are very much drawn down tribal lines.If it was another club I think there would be a more conciliatry tone adopted.But the very name Rangers cast objective thuought out of the window.

As for Rangers NEWCO then they probably should start in the 3rd division.But the reality is we will be subjected to three years of punitive sanction but remain and subsidise those very clubs that will be put at risk.


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Bzzzz, on 06 December 2012 - 10:37 AM, said: Cannae deny it, we'll done Lennon & Celtic.

#7 Mitre

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:44 PM

The fact that Aberdeen, in 1986, were the last non Old Firm team to win the premier league


That's not really a fact though is it? You are clearly not a Hearts fan.

#8 Diamond Scot

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:45 PM

Just think, we would have one of Cove's admin threads every week.

I think positions are very much drawn down tribal lines.If it was another club I think there would be a more conciliatry tone adopted.But the very name Rangers cast objective thuought out of the window.

As for Rangers NEWCO then they probably should start in the 3rd division.But the reality is we will be subjected to three years of punitive sanction but remain and subsidise those very clubs that will be put at risk.


Thats my point.

Any major sanction would have an equal if not worse result on other SPL clubs.

For example I can see Rangers starting from Div 3. They would still get 35k a week based on loyalty of the fans and be back in the SPL within 3 years. They would lose the majority if not all of their top paid players but the name Rangers would attract more than enough good players to rise through the divisions and then when they are back in the SPL they would be debt free and able to spend big on a whole new team.

However for the other 10 SPL sides outside Celtic a reduction of income by about 50% would put many out of business. How many sides have players that would reach a decent value?

Dundee Utd could maybe get 3 or 4 million. Aberdeen, hearts and motherwell maybe 2 million and the rest would be struggling to get 1 million so we would be looking at stadium sales etc just to stay in the black.

Speaking from personal experience with Airdre when we started again, there is basically no hope when you dont own your stadium. We cant afford to give players long contracts so even when we do have a player like GMS we lose him for nothing or peanuts. We will never be as strong a team as we were in the past but at the same time I see us giving youth more of a chance and we are starting to invest what little money we have in youth systems etc so there are some benefits.

They question remains though. Would fans still say yes if these were the consequences?

#9 cammyk

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:48 PM

This talk of extra money making everyone more competitive is nonsense, if the expectation that a few K more TV money will open up transfer markets then a lot of folks will be let down. The reality is that no one in the SPL can compete even with championship clubs with spending power. Any extra money will purely be absorbed with wage inflation.
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#10 wembley67lisbon

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:53 PM

Rangers newco into the spl would permanently ruin scottish football.

Any club could follow that route and point to rangers as an example.



#11 cammyk

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:56 PM

Rangers newco into the spl would permanently ruin Sellick fans wet dream of total domination


Fixed that for you ;) Won't happen even without Rangers, not under current management regime
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#12 Diamond Scot

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:57 PM

The assumption that other teams will disappear because they are no longer getting pumped 5-0 by Rangers 4 times a year seems like arrogant scare mongering to me.

Teams like Aberdeen, Heart, Hibs, Dundee UTD used to pull in average crowds of 15 000. However with the recent old firm duo-opoly of the last decade average gates are now down to 8000.

In recent years the 'diddy teams' are very much used to cutting their cloth to fit the restricted budgets of the SPL.
Unlike Rangers and Celtic they have never had aspirations of Champions league (or English premier league) glory.

If the TV pot of money is reduced then Celtic will suffer the most ? Which then means some of the smaller teams might find it easier to close the gap? In the longer term a greater reliance on young Scottish players, by all 12 SPL teams, could be a very good thing for Scottish football ?

Obviously if Scottish football is to prosper in the long term then something needs to be done to make the product more attractive ? The fact that Aberdeen, in 1986, were the last non Old Firm team to win the premier league sums up perfectly what is really wrong with our game ? Outside the Old Firm there is dwindling interest because the league has been milked dry by 2 teams Euro & EPL aspirations.


To say that no team would be affected by the situation at Rangers is burying your head in the sand.

Teams are currently struggling for money with things as they are. If they got 20% of the current TV deal then they couldnt afford to pay their own bills. Repayments to banks would stay the same but income dramatically reduced. Wages that players are currently on stay the same but income dramatically reduced. Club running costs stay the same but income dramatically reduced.

Celtic would be affected but not nearly as much as other sides as Celtic have a huge fan base and have several other forms of income that most SPL sides dont have. ie merchandice, large sponsorship contracts, potential for selling tv rights individually etc. They would suffer and the standard of player they could afford would reduce but not nearly as much as other teams.

Your solution to this would be the attendences doubling? Why would attendences double for teams fighting for 2nd place when it would have the same reward as teams finishing 3rd currently get? Also, not every teams attendence would double. For example Aberdeen and Hibs are currently in the bottom 6 and have been on several occasions over the last 5 years. Do you see their attendences doubling if they were 8th in a league without Rangers and if not how would they afford to pay their bills?

Anyway, we are going off topic here. There are loads of threads discussing what may happen if Rangers went bust and how other teams would suddenly become huge teams like they were in the past.

My question is simple. Given the original scenario. If you knew that this would happen. Would you still be in favour? Yes or no?

#13 phart

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:58 PM

They would still get 35k a week based on loyalty of the fans and be back in the SPL within 3 years.


Does reality/history bear this out?
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#14 Scunnered

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:01 PM

Does reality/history bear this out?


No, no it doesn't.

Diamond Scot, what are you basing the financial reliability on? Kilmarnock only need to bring in 620 additional supporters per home game to cancel out the Rangers gate money. No double attendances required.

Edited by Scunnered, 19 April 2012 - 02:03 PM.

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#15 biffer

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:03 PM

Just think, we would have one of Cove's admin threads every week.

I think positions are very much drawn down tribal lines.If it was another club I think there would be a more conciliatry tone adopted.But the very name Rangers cast objective thuought out of the window.

As for Rangers NEWCO then they probably should start in the 3rd division.But the reality is we will be subjected to three years of punitive sanction but remain and subsidise those very clubs that will be put at risk.


I think they should go down to 3 and it's not tribal. I'm a St Johnstone fan and I shouted for harsh punishments for Livingston and Gretna when they were in similar situations.
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