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Why Can't Be Be As Good As The Roi?


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#16 big_matt

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 12:53 PM

Yea he's not even close to world class. And from memory he didn't score any goals against good teams during qualifying (a penalty against Russia aside).

However, he is much better than what we have and he makes the whole team better by being in the side. He's reliable, confident and will get a few goals every campaign.

#17 henry george

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 12:59 PM

The RoI systemis based on a very simple premise - don't concede a goal.

To do this they employ 2 sitting midfielders whose sole purpose is to break up oposition attacks and protect the back 4.
We on the other hand employ the quarter-back system where either Adam or Bannan sit behind a 4 man midfield and direct play - the drawback being that the deepest lying midfielder is either someone who can't tackle without conceding a foul (Adam) or who can't tackle or track a runner (Bannan).

The 4-4-2 thing is a bit of a misnomer as either Keane or Doyle will drop back into midfield to link up play.
Morrison is supposed to play a similar role for us but is often drawn deeper and deeper due to the defensive frailties mentioned above.

Their front 4 can all take a ball under pressure and protect it.
I think we showed against the USA that, Bannan aside, we can't protect the ball when a team presses us and we cede possession remarkably quickly.

At least 3 of their front 4 can hurt you in one on one situations.
I don't think we have any player since McFadden in his heyday who we could say that about.

Realistically the only players of our who would actually improve the RoI team would be Fletcher and Bardsley.
:blush:

#18 exile

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:21 PM

I think the manager is the main thing, to do with organisation and mentality.

I take the points about Keane. But is Keane really better than Steven Fletcher? Could we not have a created a system around Fletcher that would get the most out of our most prolific EPL striker rather than bulding a system out of our waning Championship model?

So that comes down to the manager too.

So the question becomes, how can RoI net an international class manager and we can't?

Then there is also luck and circumstance. There are probably several teams as good as or better than Ireland who are not in the Euros. The margins are so tight. Were were not that far away. A win against Czechs at Hampden, or a clean sheet in Prague would have seen us into the playoffs. (Then again we were scarily close to being in effect knocked out out in game 2)

#19 Third Lanark

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:23 PM

"Bannan aside". Do you mean Brown? Barry certainly can't defend as you said yourself!

#20 ParisInAKilt

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:25 PM

But is Keane really better than Steven Fletcher?


Yes. If Fletcher scores half the goals Keane has for club and country he'll be doing well
Pick it out Landreau

#21 Crockett82

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:36 PM

Is Football Irelands national game? They prefer Rugby?

Are Scotland good at any sports these days? Golf's up and down. Andy Murray is world class but Scotland isn't really interested in Tennis compared to some countries.

A Top 20 ranked football team and a half decent rugger team and we would be happy I'm sure. Oh and Andy Murray to win a few majors. :)

#22 exile

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:36 PM

Yes. If Fletcher scores half the goals Keane has for club and country he'll be doing well


Ok but the question is about "if" and how that could come about.

If Fletcher played for Tottenham or Celtic etc rather than Wolves or Burnley or Hibs, then maybe he would score more goals, or we could judge their relative ability better.

But even that aside, couldn't a better manager of Scotland do more to mould the team around Fletcher as spearhead, as per Keane?

#23 aaid

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:39 PM

So the question becomes, how can RoI net an international class manager and we can't?


A wealthy benefactor paying half the wages probably helps.
The owls are not what they seem

#24 ParisInAKilt

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:40 PM

Ok but the question is about "if" and how that could come about.

If Fletcher played for Tottenham or Celtic etc rather than Wolves or Burnley or Hibs, then maybe he would score more goals, or we could judge their relative ability better.

But even that aside, couldn't a better manager of Scotland do more to mould the team around Fletcher as spearhead, as per Keane?


That's a lot of if's
Pick it out Landreau

#25 exile

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:45 PM

That's a lot of if's

Not really - no more than implied in If Fletcher scores half the goals Keane has for club and country...

But the point is, couldn't a better manager of Scotland do more to mould the team around Fletcher as spearhead, as per Keane?

#26 ParisInAKilt

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:49 PM

But the point is, couldn't a better manager of Scotland do more to mould the team around Fletcher as spearhead, as per Keane?


Yes. In an ideal world we would play to our strengths and that would mean Fletcher would play. Whether he and Scotland would be as successful as Keane and ROI I'm not sure. It's almost impossible to imagine any Scottish forward scoring + 50 goals
Pick it out Landreau

#27 exile

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:51 PM

So are there any wealthy Scottish benfactors out there?

A wealthy benefactor paying half the wages probably helps.



Or are we content if that is the answer to the original question?

#28 jimstroma

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:54 PM

Yes. In an ideal world we would play to our strengths and that would mean Fletcher would play. Whether he and Scotland would be as successful as Keane and ROI I'm not sure. It's almost impossible to imagine any Scottish forward scoring + 50 goals

Jordan Rhodes :ok:

#29 wembley67lisbon

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:02 PM

don't agree with McGeady, I have never seen why he is so highly rated. I think he is a very average player and doesn't create or score enough.

I think we do have the players but we never use them in their best positions and we never get men forward to support our 1 striker. The ROI always seem to play 4-4-2 and it works, we will never be that brave.


I believe he has improved big time sincr his move thus bejng linked with 20 mill moves to zenit.

Sayinf he wouldnt get in our team is laughable.

And fletcher is nowhere near keane.

Edited by wembley67lisbon, 10 June 2012 - 02:03 PM.


#30 big_matt

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:16 PM

A wealthy benefactor paying half the wages probably helps.


No reason why we couldn't and shouldn't be doing the same. I'd hope the SFA have at least been exploring such possibilities.