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Why Can't Be Be As Good As The Roi?


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#31 Crockett82

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:27 PM

I reckon if Sir Alex had been manager of Scotland since 2008 (the same time Trap took over Ireland) we would be at the same level as the Irish. Our overall squad isn't bad. 2004-2007 we were moving forward. We need the right manager.

We seem to have moved backwards.

Trapattoni is one of the best managers in the post war era of Football. The Irish are getting their moneys worth.

Salmond should have offered him tax breaks and the SFA could have appointed him instead of Burley!

#32 McToot

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:48 PM

The RoI systemis based on a very simple premise - don't concede a goal.

To do this they employ 2 sitting midfielders whose sole purpose is to break up oposition attacks and protect the back 4.
We on the other hand employ the quarter-back system where either Adam or Bannan sit behind a 4 man midfield and direct play - the drawback being that the deepest lying midfielder is either someone who can't tackle without conceding a foul (Adam) or who can't tackle or track a runner (Bannan).

The 4-4-2 thing is a bit of a misnomer as either Keane or Doyle will drop back into midfield to link up play.
Morrison is supposed to play a similar role for us but is often drawn deeper and deeper due to the defensive frailties mentioned above.

Their front 4 can all take a ball under pressure and protect it.
I think we showed against the USA that, Bannan aside, we can't protect the ball when a team presses us and we cede possession remarkably quickly.

At least 3 of their front 4 can hurt you in one on one situations.
I don't think we have any player since McFadden in his heyday who we could say that about.

Realistically the only players of our who would actually improve the RoI team would be Fletcher and Bardsley.
:blush:


Very good post. Of note Ireland are unbeaten in 14, of which have kept clean sheets in 11!

#33 aaid

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:59 PM

No reason why we couldn't and shouldn't be doing the same. I'd hope the SFA have at least been exploring such possibilities.


Maybe not using as many 5 star hotels and putting the team in Travelodges might have freed up enough to cover the extra wages, who knows.

I reckon if Sir Alex had been manager of Scotland since 2008 (the same time Trap took over Ireland) we would be at the same level as the Irish. Our overall squad isn't bad. 2004-2007 we were moving forward. We need the right manager.

We seem to have moved backwards.

Trapattoni is one of the best managers in the post war era of Football. The Irish are getting their moneys worth.

Salmond should have offered him tax breaks and the SFA could have appointed him instead of Burley!


If you want the First Minister to be able to do things like that then vote Yes.
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#34 bossman4

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:08 PM

The ROI are still a very defensive side, the difference apart from Keane are the 2 wingers and the full backs. If we ever wanted to emulate their system we would need to review our full backs. Part of the reason that John O'Shea plays at full back is that he doesnt bomb forward. The likes of Hutton would have to change his style if he had a Phillips or Forrest in fro.nt of him IMO
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#35 big_matt

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:08 PM

Maybe not using as many 5 star hotels and putting the team in Travelodges might have freed up enough to cover the extra wages, who knows.


Not really sure what this has got to do with my quote that you used, apart from just another boring dig from you at anything I say.

Are you happy about what the SFA has done with our game over the last 15 years?

Maybe you think the £4.60 a mile (eleven time the legal expense rate for work travel) that SFA blazers were recently expensed for their standard journeys to work is really money well spent for the good of our game?

Edited by big_matt, 10 June 2012 - 03:14 PM.


#36 aaid

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:12 PM

Not really sure what this has got to do with my quote that you used, apart from just another boring dig from you at anything I say.

Are you happy about what the SFA has done with our game over the last 15 years?


I'm not happy with what the SFA has done with our game over the last 50 years.

There are fundamental problems with the Scottish game that have nothing to do with who the manager of the national team is.
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#37 big_matt

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:19 PM

I'm not happy with what the SFA has done with our game over the last 50 years.

There are fundamental problems with the Scottish game that have nothing to do with who the manager of the national team is.


Any time I mention the excess of the SFA you criticise me for it, or comment that I 'talk rubbish'.

Again: are you happy wasting the money we do on trips for our blazers? Yes or no. and if it's a no then why do you always make petty comments when I say no?

This isn't about Levein, its your comments after the things I've said about the SFA wasting money.

Edited by big_matt, 10 June 2012 - 03:19 PM.


#38 aaid

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:59 PM

Any time I mention the excess of the SFA you criticise me for it, or comment that I 'talk rubbish'.

Again: are you happy wasting the money we do on trips for our blazers? Yes or no. and if it's a no then why do you always make petty comments when I say no?

This isn't about Levein, its your comments after the things I've said about the SFA wasting money.

Don't take it personally, its just that by focussing on things like cost of offices or what class of hotels people stay in you are missing the real big picture.

The SFA's annual revenue in 2011 was £27 million of this £10 million was returned to the member clubs in various guises.

£1.5 million of this goes to the Scottish Football Partnership which is completely laudable as this is money that is ringfenced for real improvement projects.

The remainder is disbursed through clubs and associations. How much of that £8.5 million do you think has been pished away on players wages particularly foereign imports and so is in effect money going out of the game.

In 2010 - the last set of available accounts - the FAI had revenue of €38 million which is around 20% or so higher than the SFA's. The SFA should look at how Ireland have been able to generate greater revenue especially considering that Ireland is going through a financial crisis worse than in Scotland.

The FAI also received a grant of €3.6 million from the Irish Goverment and they are also not hamstrung by having to maintain and upkeep a national stadium on their own . That situation isn't likely to change while Scotland is still part of the United Kingdom.

They key difference though is that the FAI seem not to reimburse revenue to the member clubs but invest within "the game" in Ireland, especially putting an admirable €2.5 million into their underage squads.

Maybe if the clubs weren't so greedy, a big chunk of that £8.5 million could be ploughed into elite development and in getting a world-class manager in but of course it will never happen while the entire clubn structure in Scotland is riven by self-interest.
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#39 Malcolm

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 07:45 PM

Face facts... We are pish and dont deserve to be anywhere near a major championship at the moment. Ireland are better than us... Better players, better organised and they will still look very ordinary at this tournament. Fletcher and maybe adam would stake a claim for their team... Thats about it

#40 big_matt

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 07:48 PM

Don't take it personally, its just that by focussing on things like cost of offices or what class of hotels people stay in you are missing the real big picture.

The SFA's annual revenue in 2011 was £27 million of this £10 million was returned to the member clubs in various guises.

£1.5 million of this goes to the Scottish Football Partnership which is completely laudable as this is money that is ringfenced for real improvement projects.

The remainder is disbursed through clubs and associations. How much of that £8.5 million do you think has been pished away on players wages particularly foereign imports and so is in effect money going out of the game.

In 2010 - the last set of available accounts - the FAI had revenue of €38 million which is around 20% or so higher than the SFA's. The SFA should look at how Ireland have been able to generate greater revenue especially considering that Ireland is going through a financial crisis worse than in Scotland.

The FAI also received a grant of €3.6 million from the Irish Goverment and they are also not hamstrung by having to maintain and upkeep a national stadium on their own . That situation isn't likely to change while Scotland is still part of the United Kingdom.

They key difference though is that the FAI seem not to reimburse revenue to the member clubs but invest within "the game" in Ireland, especially putting an admirable €2.5 million into their underage squads.

Maybe if the clubs weren't so greedy, a big chunk of that £8.5 million could be ploughed into elite development and in getting a world-class manager in but of course it will never happen while the entire clubn structure in Scotland is riven by self-interest.


Good post.

I still think the expenses, lavish hotels, sub-commitees that never seem to do anything etc would all add up to a substantial amount. Perhaps over a million per year, and that makes a big difference in managerial salary etc. It sounds like some of the staff were continually expensing £46 in travel costs per day.

I do strategy for large organisations for my job and a cost base like the SFA appear to have can make a huge difference overall even if it's just lots of little things adding up.

What is the spare £17m used for? (the total revenue minus the £10m that goes into clubs and game improvements)?

Edited by big_matt, 10 June 2012 - 07:51 PM.


#41 YORKIE PAM

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 07:54 PM

They've got a good Manager, we've got a poor one, as simple as that.
I'm baffled as to why the Republic of Ireland FA can afford to pay a decent Manager but the SFA can't.
There are many decent Scottish Managers out there who would I'm sure would be up for the job if a salary in line with other top Managerial posts was offered.

#42 bossman4

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 07:57 PM

Because they have an Irish billionaire businessmen (not dermot desmond though) paying 3/4 of his wages. He's earning over a million a year.
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#43 aaid

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 07:58 PM

Good post.

I still think the expenses, lavish hotels, sub-commitees that never seem to do anything etc would all add up to a substantial amount. Perhaps over a million per year, and that makes a big difference in managerial salary etc. It sounds like some of the staff were continually expensing £46 in travel costs per day.

I do strategy for large organisations for my job and a cost base like the SFA appear to have can make a huge difference overall even if it's just lots of little things adding up.

What is the spare £17m used for? (the total revenue minus the £10m that goes into clubs and game improvements)?


Salaries, cost of sales, etc.
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#44 PASTA Mick

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 08:03 PM

BTW, Ireland aren't any better than us. Worst team yet and wouldn't have qualified if they got anyone other than Estonia in the play-offs.

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#45 silverbear

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 08:21 PM

BTW, Ireland aren't any better than us. Worst team yet and wouldn't have qualified if they got anyone other than Estonia in the play-offs.

You could make the same argument about Czech Republic & substitute Montenegro for Estonia.
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